There are no fully working spear mods. Soolie's is the first to actually see the light of day, and it's only just dropped last night, with some very obvious issues.
These spears are only one handed in his mod. If we get the rest of our spear animations rounded out it wouldn't be difficult getting them in-game using his mod as a base. Seems like the script just looks for which weapons to apply the animations to from a tab separated document. Animations just have to be stored in a particular folder under meshes. A bit of not terribly difficult modifying would get it to work quite quickly from what I can tell.
If it wouldn't be much trouble, could someone explain to me why creating animations and exporting them so the CK is so much trouble?
I know programming, modeling and animating(the things required for the process of the development of these animations), so you guys can get technical if you want.
It seems to me as if the game isn't capable of supporting new animations or something, because I haven't seen people bring up the actual work as a problem, it seems more about being incompatible with something.
Skyrim has a set number of animations types, you can only replace existing animations without behavior edits. There's no doing anything with new animations and the CK, aside from adding values involved with scripting to weapons.
Eham had them working with a really efficient method, but he's gone now, and I think only left AlexanderB with any sort of info on his method.
From much earlier in this thread:
Ehamloptiran wrote:
Which is part of my theory which includes editing the behavior graph to further split the states under two handed weapons and using some modifiers to set a value within the behavior graph via papyrus (Send Animation Event - to call an event to modify a value) which will allow the use of custom animations for same weapon types, ie. You could put spears as a two handed weapon, throw a script onto the weapon which will make it a unique sub weapon type. This method could be used to create any number of custom weapon types.
Okay i'm going to sound like a lazy pile of crap for this but why not just use the two handed sword animations like Morroblivion? They didn't detract from the 'immersion' (really hate that word, its so overused) and you can still include custom kill animations without a ton of fuss.
Also the javelin animation that soolie used is quite clearly just a rip of the Rieklings throwing animation, while obviously reworked to fit a human it follows all the same points. It's still impressive that the mod exists it's not exactly a technical breakthrough that was promised.
Why should we get our collective panties in a wad over what is really only a minor part of the game? How many of you actually made a spear character in Morrowind? Seriously. Aside from the spear of bitter mercy they were all just terrible and unusable. The Daedric spear did less damage than an ebony long-sword, that's just madness. Not to mention the reach of the spear was so negligible that you still had to smoosh your face into every enemy to land a hit just like every weapon.
Conclusion? Screw you I don't have to conclude anything. But really the two hander animations would work more than enough for the spears and no one is going to care since they'll be too busy enjoying the splendid landscape. Did anyone really make a huge fuss over Morroblivion just using the two hander animations? Nope.
Well its things like Crap spears that Skywind is trying to rectify and improve upon. Morrowind was fantastic, but there were certain imbalances that Skywind will shine above and beyond for polishing up. To feel like a proper polished game decent spear animations would go a long way, and the mechanics will also be worked upon no doubt as well.
Try swinging a spear, it looks ridiculous and makes anyone wanting to use it not want to.
From what I've heard it is indeed meant to have custom animations for the spears (or so the mod claims) which should be separate from the standard one handed animations (can someone please confirm/disprove this? Jorgen have you downloaded and tested it?). This is the part which is important and is indeed a working breakthrough if true (even if it may or may/not not use eham's method).
If this is true, then the script he uses to get these unique animations working can work for our own custom animations.
In short
1. need to figure out if indeed spear animations are unique animations that do not replace any existing 1 handed animations. If false then Fearsome Mudcrab is right about it being improperly advertised and there's nothing here.
2. If true, then we need to get our animations dept. (Deadman?) to round out the rest of the animations (possibly reworking the one handed ones from this mod if it speeds up the process?)
3. overhaul this mod to use our animations with our own two-handed spear weapon type. This part from my brief poking around shouldn't be too difficult, especially with we get in contact with the mod creator.
@taerkalith: Soolie's mod only gives spears unique power attack animations, though I think all the javelin animations are unique. I haven't tested it yet primarily because of the 26 steps required to run it, and the bug reports that are still rolling in. I plan to watch for updates though.
I believe Deadman001 already has someone working on the animations themselves, it's just a matter of the tech being sorted out. Last I heard about that, Eham had shown alexanderb how to do it, but he's apparently missing something that Eham had or was working on. And of course Eham's been gone for over 3 months now, and Alex is MIA recently. So there's a bit of a quagmire on that end.
From the one working video above it seems he is able to have custom un-sheath animations. If this and the power attack animations are truly unique and don't mess with swords that would be the proof.
I know the situation with eham and alex and we're not likely to get eham back and with alex busy with other stuff this could be the easiest way to do it once we have the animations done.
We still don't seem to have proof here about if they're truly unique or not though and from watching the youtube videos available I have yet to see any one handed weapons wielded in them. I get a sneaking feeling these ARE replacements contrary to his claim, but we do need someone to test this out. It could be he just lacks animations.
Eham was waiting for someone to make animations at one point. He supposedly had everything except first person figured out, because first person stuff is apparently really weird. I'm not sure if Soolie's mod is comparable to what Eham was doing or not. From what I understand of Eham's technique though, it would've only required the user to put the files in the proper folders, like any other mod, not this 26 step installation crap.
Ok so, Soolie's mod is apparently built off of another mod called 'PC Exclusive Animation Path' by xp32. It uses custom races and scripts to access new animations (a method I was actually pondering at one point), with apparently some unresolved bugs with actual attack animations among other limitations. So it's pretty messy.
well after "extensive" research (spent several hours mucking about with it) I see nothing impressive here. The unique animations is just an exploit using scripts and not actually using the animation system in game which I found to be disappointing. Moreover I followed the 26 steps like church, even did a fresh install of skyrim, and found that it simply doesn't work. The javelins took a million years to get to work and even then they look like the borrow the existing riekling animation as I suspected before and the spears? The spears just flat out don't work. I tried every single thing I could think of and they just used the normal one handed animations. I looked at the way the spears were designed and it looks like they were made to be used like one handed weapons which is why they are essentially swords on sticks, which while very cool doesn't strike me as some breakthrough. I can't think of any way to get this to work properly as shown in the video and that seems to be the general consensus from the reviews i've read on the nexus. Looking at the video the spear he uses seems to simply use a regular one handed attack and the power attack one handed swords in the left hand use. The only new one I saw was the power attack for the spear. Call me a hopeless cynic but I sincerely doubt this mod will be of any use for the project.
And also it's 1 handed only. If we get spears there are only two reasonable ways about it - either only two handed, or two handed with one handed option if you take a shield (some long spears probably shouldn't have that ability). Having it only one handed doesn't make much sense and looks ridiculous when not using a shield. And also the animations Deadman made, as far as I know, are two handed.
I think the one handedness is irrelevant, and was just a choice of the author, not a limitation of the method. The trouble I'm seeing is in the technical limitations of that method, and the apparently latent bugs. Suffice to say it's probably the most inefficient method out there.
If I wasn't being obvious in my previous posts, allow me to clarify:
I do not think the method used in Soolie's mod should be used for Skywind at all, I just thought there might be some value in studying it. Though all I've learned personally is how much of a mess it is.
Hey I just saw this topic pop up. The mod that he is talking about requires two other mods to work properly (PCEA and Fores animations). Also the animations only work in third person. If y'all are really looking into using this mods assets for spears, I would suggest waiting a bit. The installation is tedious (24 steps are you kidding me?) and it requires a third mod just so it can work in first person. Sorry for the long post but I suggest waiting until the mod is more developed before implementing this.
Hey I just saw this topic pop up. The mod that he is talking about requires two other mods to work properly (PCEA and Fores animations). Also the animations only work in third person. If y'all are really looking into using this mods assets for spears, I would suggest waiting a bit. The installation is tedious (24 steps are you kidding me?) and it requires a third mod just so it can work in first person. Sorry for the long post but I suggest waiting until the mod is more developed before implementing this.
Believe me, Soolie's mod isn't going to be implemented in Skywind at all. His method is too inefficient and buggy.
Duke Patrick's mod has too many bugs as well. Mainly that those attacks that do have unique animations won't deliver poisons or enchantment effects, and it only gives like 4 actual animations, and only in 3rd person. There's probably more value to be found in studying it as opposed to Soolie's mod though. It seems to be far more efficient, despite the obvious issues.
soolie's spear mod might get an update in the future only relying on the FNIS framework and further simplifying the installation process. I hope the new version will see the light as day and that skywind could use it as a basis. FNIS isnt too hard to use for future skywind users in comparison to what used to be the atrocious install process of soolies spears before.
We're bypassing FNIS. We looked at soolie's and it isn't up to our standard. Instead we're using Aerisarn's streamlined method to do custom new animations that don't work as a replacer.
Oh? I'd like a link to these mods, cause I couldn't find a single "fully working" one :P
There are no fully working spear mods. Soolie's is the first to actually see the light of day, and it's only just dropped last night, with some very obvious issues.
These spears are only one handed in his mod. If we get the rest of our spear animations rounded out it wouldn't be difficult getting them in-game using his mod as a base. Seems like the script just looks for which weapons to apply the animations to from a tab separated document. Animations just have to be stored in a particular folder under meshes. A bit of not terribly difficult modifying would get it to work quite quickly from what I can tell.
If it wouldn't be much trouble, could someone explain to me why creating animations and exporting them so the CK is so much trouble?
I know programming, modeling and animating(the things required for the process of the development of these animations), so you guys can get technical if you want.
It seems to me as if the game isn't capable of supporting new animations or something, because I haven't seen people bring up the actual work as a problem, it seems more about being incompatible with something.
Skyrim has a set number of animations types, you can only replace existing animations without behavior edits. There's no doing anything with new animations and the CK, aside from adding values involved with scripting to weapons.
Eham had them working with a really efficient method, but he's gone now, and I think only left AlexanderB with any sort of info on his method.
From much earlier in this thread:
Ehamloptiran wrote:
Video
Okay i'm going to sound like a lazy pile of crap for this but why not just use the two handed sword animations like Morroblivion? They didn't detract from the 'immersion' (really hate that word, its so overused) and you can still include custom kill animations without a ton of fuss.
Also the javelin animation that soolie used is quite clearly just a rip of the Rieklings throwing animation, while obviously reworked to fit a human it follows all the same points. It's still impressive that the mod exists it's not exactly a technical breakthrough that was promised.
Why should we get our collective panties in a wad over what is really only a minor part of the game? How many of you actually made a spear character in Morrowind? Seriously. Aside from the spear of bitter mercy they were all just terrible and unusable. The Daedric spear did less damage than an ebony long-sword, that's just madness. Not to mention the reach of the spear was so negligible that you still had to smoosh your face into every enemy to land a hit just like every weapon.
Conclusion? Screw you I don't have to conclude anything. But really the two hander animations would work more than enough for the spears and no one is going to care since they'll be too busy enjoying the splendid landscape. Did anyone really make a huge fuss over Morroblivion just using the two hander animations? Nope.
Well its things like Crap spears that Skywind is trying to rectify and improve upon. Morrowind was fantastic, but there were certain imbalances that Skywind will shine above and beyond for polishing up. To feel like a proper polished game decent spear animations would go a long way, and the mechanics will also be worked upon no doubt as well.
Try swinging a spear, it looks ridiculous and makes anyone wanting to use it not want to.
From what I've heard it is indeed meant to have custom animations for the spears (or so the mod claims) which should be separate from the standard one handed animations (can someone please confirm/disprove this? Jorgen have you downloaded and tested it?). This is the part which is important and is indeed a working breakthrough if true (even if it may or may/not not use eham's method).
If this is true, then the script he uses to get these unique animations working can work for our own custom animations.
In short
1. need to figure out if indeed spear animations are unique animations that do not replace any existing 1 handed animations. If false then Fearsome Mudcrab is right about it being improperly advertised and there's nothing here.
2. If true, then we need to get our animations dept. (Deadman?) to round out the rest of the animations (possibly reworking the one handed ones from this mod if it speeds up the process?)
3. overhaul this mod to use our animations with our own two-handed spear weapon type. This part from my brief poking around shouldn't be too difficult, especially with we get in contact with the mod creator.
A few more videos of what he was able to do.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzqpBc4MrAMXNnVneWQyWHl0V2c/...
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzqpBc4MrAMXZlYtOXFoazBzQlk/...
@taerkalith: Soolie's mod only gives spears unique power attack animations, though I think all the javelin animations are unique. I haven't tested it yet primarily because of the 26 steps required to run it, and the bug reports that are still rolling in. I plan to watch for updates though.
I believe Deadman001 already has someone working on the animations themselves, it's just a matter of the tech being sorted out. Last I heard about that, Eham had shown alexanderb how to do it, but he's apparently missing something that Eham had or was working on. And of course Eham's been gone for over 3 months now, and Alex is MIA recently. So there's a bit of a quagmire on that end.
I actually have Alex on Skype.
What's his official word on it?
I pmed him this thread just now.
From the one working video above it seems he is able to have custom un-sheath animations. If this and the power attack animations are truly unique and don't mess with swords that would be the proof.
I know the situation with eham and alex and we're not likely to get eham back and with alex busy with other stuff this could be the easiest way to do it once we have the animations done.
We still don't seem to have proof here about if they're truly unique or not though and from watching the youtube videos available I have yet to see any one handed weapons wielded in them. I get a sneaking feeling these ARE replacements contrary to his claim, but we do need someone to test this out. It could be he just lacks animations.
Eham was waiting for someone to make animations at one point. He supposedly had everything except first person figured out, because first person stuff is apparently really weird. I'm not sure if Soolie's mod is comparable to what Eham was doing or not. From what I understand of Eham's technique though, it would've only required the user to put the files in the proper folders, like any other mod, not this 26 step installation crap.
Ok so, Soolie's mod is apparently built off of another mod called 'PC Exclusive Animation Path' by xp32. It uses custom races and scripts to access new animations (a method I was actually pondering at one point), with apparently some unresolved bugs with actual attack animations among other limitations. So it's pretty messy.
well after "extensive" research (spent several hours mucking about with it) I see nothing impressive here. The unique animations is just an exploit using scripts and not actually using the animation system in game which I found to be disappointing. Moreover I followed the 26 steps like church, even did a fresh install of skyrim, and found that it simply doesn't work. The javelins took a million years to get to work and even then they look like the borrow the existing riekling animation as I suspected before and the spears? The spears just flat out don't work. I tried every single thing I could think of and they just used the normal one handed animations. I looked at the way the spears were designed and it looks like they were made to be used like one handed weapons which is why they are essentially swords on sticks, which while very cool doesn't strike me as some breakthrough. I can't think of any way to get this to work properly as shown in the video and that seems to be the general consensus from the reviews i've read on the nexus. Looking at the video the spear he uses seems to simply use a regular one handed attack and the power attack one handed swords in the left hand use. The only new one I saw was the power attack for the spear. Call me a hopeless cynic but I sincerely doubt this mod will be of any use for the project.
And also it's 1 handed only. If we get spears there are only two reasonable ways about it - either only two handed, or two handed with one handed option if you take a shield (some long spears probably shouldn't have that ability). Having it only one handed doesn't make much sense and looks ridiculous when not using a shield. And also the animations Deadman made, as far as I know, are two handed.
I think the one handedness is irrelevant, and was just a choice of the author, not a limitation of the method. The trouble I'm seeing is in the technical limitations of that method, and the apparently latent bugs. Suffice to say it's probably the most inefficient method out there.
If I wasn't being obvious in my previous posts, allow me to clarify:
I do not think the method used in Soolie's mod should be used for Skywind at all, I just thought there might be some value in studying it. Though all I've learned personally is how much of a mess it is.
Hey I just saw this topic pop up. The mod that he is talking about requires two other mods to work properly (PCEA and Fores animations). Also the animations only work in third person. If y'all are really looking into using this mods assets for spears, I would suggest waiting a bit. The installation is tedious (24 steps are you kidding me?) and it requires a third mod just so it can work in first person. Sorry for the long post but I suggest waiting until the mod is more developed before implementing this.
Midget Cookies wrote:
Believe me, Soolie's mod isn't going to be implemented in Skywind at all. His method is too inefficient and buggy.
What about, Duke Patrick's Spears In Skyrim by Duke Patrick AKA SpookyFXcom?
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1503574-relz-duke-patricks-...
Duke Patrick's mod has too many bugs as well. Mainly that those attacks that do have unique animations won't deliver poisons or enchantment effects, and it only gives like 4 actual animations, and only in 3rd person. There's probably more value to be found in studying it as opposed to Soolie's mod though. It seems to be far more efficient, despite the obvious issues.
I hear AlexB is back. We may have a way forward if he finds time for it (fingers crossed).
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/4nelg3/finishin...
soolie's spear mod might get an update in the future only relying on the FNIS framework and further simplifying the installation process. I hope the new version will see the light as day and that skywind could use it as a basis. FNIS isnt too hard to use for future skywind users in comparison to what used to be the atrocious install process of soolies spears before.
We're bypassing FNIS. We looked at soolie's and it isn't up to our standard. Instead we're using Aerisarn's streamlined method to do custom new animations that don't work as a replacer.
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